Hanging out with Dave Rolph
Calvinism and Arminianism
Summary Discussion
Notes from Wednesday night, March 16th
Introduction-
1. This is a difficult area of discussion, and has been throughout history.
2. It’s a family discussion, between brothers and sisters. There are no bad guys.
3. This is a study that DEMANDS humility. We are intruding into the mind and character of the God Who is Almighty, and incomprehensible in His essence.
I. Total Depravity- “Man is unable to do anything to save himself, or to prepare himself for salvation.”
A. The case for Total Depravity, in a nutshell- 1. Corinthians 2:14 says the natural man can’t receive the things of the Spirit. Ephesians 2:1,9 say that before regeneration we were spiritually dead. Dead people can’t respond, cooperate, or do anything. (Other Scriptures include John 14:17 and Romans 3:10-12.)
B. The case against Total Depravity, in a nutshell- There are verses that surround the verses cited that contradict or qualify Total Depravity. The references to people being “dead” are metaphorical. But to go with it as literal would beg the question, “Can dead people sin, or be found guilty?” Can people be justly held responsible for something to which it is impossible for them to respond to? (Arminians also often teach that the death of Jesus removed Original Sin from everyone, and gave all the ability to respond to God’s call.) (Pelagians believe that God and man cooperate in salvation, and that man makes the first move. Semi-Pelagians believe that man and God cooperate in salvation, but that God makes the first move, to everyone. Both positions have been considered to be heretical throughout church history.)
C. Conclusions- Both sides believe that people are unable to save themselves. That is obviously the critical point. The argument as to “how unable are they?” would seem to be more academic than practical and meaningful. Whatever man may or may not be able to do, salvation is a gift from God (Ephesians 2:8-9) and if man had a part in his own salvation he would brag about it. However, as man is held responsible for rejecting Jesus, I’d hesitate in framing my Soteriology in such a way that a response would be impossible.
II. Unconditional Election- “God chose individuals for salvation, without having any criteria outside His own will.”
A. The case for Unconditional Election, in a nutshell- Ephesians 1:4,5 says that we were chosen before the foundation of the world. Thus, nothing that happens in creation, or by created beings, could have influenced that choice. Also, Jesus said in John 15:16, “You have not chosen me, but I have chosen you.” Romans 8:30 says that “Whom He predestined, these He also called; Whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.”
B. The case against Unconditional Election, in a nutshell- In general, the passages that refer to predestination or election are, in context, speaking more of fruitfulness than salvation. And those that do refer to salvation, such as Romans 8:29-30 and 1Peter 1:2 put foreknowledge at the beginning. This makes the Arminian argument (and even the Semi-Pelagian argument) that He based His election on what He knew the people would decide for themselves. Other Arminians, such as N.T. Wright, have suggested, based on the Old Testament usage of “election” that only groups and categories of people are elect, and that individuals are not individually chosen.
C. Conclusions- The precise definition of foreknowledge is critical here. Does it mean, as Arminians state, that God knew what people would do, or does it mean, as Calvinists interpret, that God knew what HE would do? Unfortunately, the Bible doesn’t define the term. The Arminian understanding of election, that God chose based on what we would decide, seems to destroy the meaningfulness of election. Why would I be blessed at being chosen by God, if I was actually the one that made it happen? That would seem to be no choice at all. On the other hand, my response to Him would seem to be meaningless if I have no legitimate choice in the matter. God sovereignly chose us, and we should take great comfort in that. However, for us to put limits and qualifications on the criteria God used in making His elective decision would seem to go beyond our pay grade. Thus, it might be wiser to say, “God chose us for reasons known only to Himself.” Since He can do whatever He chooses, He perhaps could have considered individual human responses in His decision, but the Bible doesn’t state that, or deny that.
III. Limited Atonement (Particular Redemption)- “Jesus died for those who would be saved, thus only for the elect.”
A. The case for Limited Atonement, in a nutshell- If Jesus died for you, your sins were paid for, and you are saved. How could He take the sins of someone on Himself, on the cross, and have them still be guilty of those sins? John 3:16 states that His gift was only given for those who believe in Him. Isaiah 53:8 states that He was stricken for “my people.” John 1:13 says those who are regenerated were not born of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. An Unlimited Atonement would necessitate Universalism, where everyone gets saved.
B. The case against Limited Atonement, in a nutshell- Jesus died for the sins of the world. John 3:16 says God so loved the world that He gave His Son. Isaiah 53:6 says “the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.” (The “all” referred to is the same “all” in the beginning of the verse: the ones who went astray.) John 1:12 says that as many as received Him became His children. 2 Peter 2:1 refers to heretics who “denied the Lord who bought them.” Powerful problem for advocates of Limited Atonement.
C. Conclusions- Everyone except Universalists has to limit the atonement somewhere, and Universalists are clearly wrong, based on Scripture. All Calvinists and Arminians believe that Jesus’ death was sufficient for all. His life and death were of infinite worth. We also all believe that His death was only efficient for some. It only saved those who accepted Him. Beyond that, it might be wise to leave the details to the One who didn’t choose to reveal them.
IV. Irresistible Grace- “When God chooses someone for salvation, they will always respond.”
A. The case for Irresistable Grace, in a nutshell- God is sovereign, and does whatever He wants. Romans 9:14-20 makes it clear that God does what He wills. John 5:21 says that the Son raises whom He wills.
B. The case against Irresistable Grace, in a nutshell- The Bible is full of examples of people resisting God’s grace. When Jesus was weeping over Jerusalem, in Matthew 23:37 and Luke 17:34, He says, “I longed to gather you, but you would not.” That is a clear indication that God’s desires can be frustrated by man’s will. Additionally, 2 Peter 3:9 states that God isn’t willing that any should perish but that all would come to repentance.
C. Conclusions- In our experience, God’s grace sometimes seems irresistible. C.S. Lewis said he was “dragged, kicking and screaming, into the kingdom of God.” If God desires, He can certainly exert His will in a way that no one can resist. But it would seem that God could also sovereignly choose to give man an amount of autonomy and will, within the constraints of His chosen limitations. God had reasons for permitting man the opportunity to sin and fail. Human will seems to be really valuable to God. We don’t want to put limits on God, but we also don’t want to fall into a determinism, that ultimately renders God responsible for sin, as in “double predestination.”
V. Perseverance of the Saints- “If someone is truly saved, they will remain saved. If someone leaves the faith it shows that they were never really of the faith.”
A. The case for Perseverance of the Saints, in a nutshell- Salvation is something that you can presently know you have. That is one of the stated purposes for writing 1 John, according to 1 John 5:13. Then John 5:24 refers to presently having eternal life. In John 6:35-37 Jesus says that He won’t cast out anyone who comes to Him. In John 10:27-29, He says His sheep hear His voice, follow Him, and will never perish because they are safe in the hand of the Father. Several scriptures, such as Ephesians 4:30, refer to being sealed by the Holy Spirit. Anyone who seems to be a Christian, but falls away, would be one of those described in 1 John 2:19, who went out from us in order to prove they weren’t really one of us.
B. The case against Perseverance of the Saints, in a nutshell- There are passages, including several in Hebrews, that seem to warn against falling away. In John 15 Jesus warned repeatedly about abiding in Jesus. Why would He do that if not abiding is impossible for true believers. Revelation 3:5 seems to refer to the possibility of having your name blotted out of the Book of Life. It is unfair to broadbrush everyone who leaves the faith, no matter what their level of involvement was, as just never really getting it.
C. Conclusions- The controversy is largely semantical. If you don’t have faith in Jesus when you die, it really doesn’t matter what you call what you used to have. If it didn’t last forever, it wasn’t eternal life.
VI. Final appeals
A. To my Calvinist brothers- Be careful, in defining your Soteriology, to not sacrifice any Scriptures in the interest of systematizing your theology. Leave room for God to be bigger than your present understanding of Him. Make it very clear that God is not responsible for sin. Uphold the responsibility of each individual to answer to God for their sins. People who spend an eternity in hell will do so because of their own sins. Care about everyone. Maintain humility. Speak kindly concerning those who don’t share your views.
B. To my Arminian brothers- Be careful, in defining your Soteriology, to not sacrifice any Scriptures in the interest of systematizing your theology. Leave room for God to be bigger than your present understanding of Him. Make it clear that God can do whatever He wants to do. Don’t present God as a victim. Find a way to glory in the fact that God chose you. Don’t sit in judgement against God. Maintain salvation as a gift from God. Maintain humility. Speak kindly concerning those who don’t share your views.
C. To all my brothers and sisters- Don’t be reduced to anyone’s “ism.” The church didn’t begin with the Reformation. It also didn’t begin with the Charismatic renewal or the Fundamentalist movement or the Welsh revival or the Wesleys or in a tent in Costa Mesa. It began on the Day of Pentecost, and the gates of hell haven’t prevailed against it still. Our family goes back almost two thousand years. Embrace all those, from whatever tradition, and from our entire family history, who uphold the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Be Jesus People.
I have been lax in posting to my blog, since I don’t know if anyone reads it. I should probably Facebook, Twitter, and use other more hip ways of communicating. But about the time I start using these tools, they will become Myspace and I’ll have to waste time on something new. 
I have really enjoyed the last eight weeks we’ve spent in Revelation 2 and 3. These seven letters are as relevant today as they were when Jesus wrote them. The letters preach themselves. I just went along for the ride.
My lasting impression is how passionately Jesus desires to be close to us, and how consistently we find different ways of avoiding that closeness. Intimacy is so risky, so threatening, so positively dangerous and reckless. And yet it is what we desperately need, and even want. And the One most worthy of our trust and vulnerability, the One who died for us, beckons us, through the years, to come close. Yet we still find ourselves chasing after any alternative. How we need to repent (change our way of thinking) and just come home and relax in His grace. Be still…and know.
Ancient Jewish View of Scripture- placed supreme value on it.
Christ’s View of Scripture-
Constantly quoted from OT, treating it as historical fact.
Mt. 12:41- Jonah and Nineveh
Spoke of veracity of Scripture.
Mt. 5:17-20- every detail will be fulfilled
Jn. 10:35- can’t be broken
Quoted Scripture when being tempted (Mt. 4:4ff)
Taught from OT after resurrection (Luke 24:25-47) Emmaus Road
Credited to God numerous times (Mt 22:41-46) David spoke by Spirit
Apostles’ View of Scripture
Constantly quoted from OT
Attested to Inspiration (2 Tim. 3:13-17) (2 Peter 1:19-21)
Minute details mattered (Gal. 3:16) seed
Claimed inspiration for themselves (1 Cor. 2:13, 14:37)
Mixed OT and NT- (1 Tim. 5:18- from Dt. 25:4 and Lk. 10:7)
Referred to each other’s writing as Scripture (2 Peter 3:14-18)
What Inerrancy means- When all the facts are known, the Scriptures, in their original autographs, when properly interpreted, will be shown to be true in everything they affirm.
Original autographs
Not dictation. God working through man.
Doesn’t demand strict adherence to rules of grammar.
Doesn’t mean no use of figures of speech or literary genre.
Doesn’t insist on current standards of precision.
Doesn’t demand technical language of modern science.
Doesn’t require verbal exactness when citing OT in NT.
Doesn’t require verbal exactness in citing quotes of Jesus.
Doesn’t guarantee exhaustive comprehensiveness of any single account.
Practical Inerrancy, and why inerrancy matters.
In order to have a defensible epistemology (or a useful basis for truth) we have to start somewhere. If we begin with a Bible that is only partly from God, then who decides which parts have authority? Whoever decides will control the effect the Bible has on us. Given to our own devices, we will reject anything that tells us we are wrong, and our greatest need is to have God tell us where we are wrong. I would then ultimately be my own savior, and ultimately my voice would be god’s voice. If the man who represents himself in court has a fool for an attorney, as Ben Franklin contended, then how pathetic is the man who has himself for a god?
In case you missed it, Pastor Jerry Hill taught a basic introduction to the Trinity last night at Pacific Hills. If you want to watch the teaching you can view it at ccpacifichills.org.
Here are the verses referenced during the teaching:
Gen 1:1
Deut 6:4-6
Gen 1:26
Gen 11:7
Isa 6:8
Matt 3: 16-17
Matt 28: 18-19
2Corth 13:14
1 Peter 1:1-2
John 14: 16-18
Gen 19:24
Hos 1:7
Isa 59:20
phil 2: 6-7
Isa 48:16
Isa 59:21
These are the verses we referred to last Wednesday as we studied Omniscience, Omnipresence and Omnipotence of God.
Omniscience-
Romans 11:33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
Hebrews 4:13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.
1 John 3:20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things.
Omnipresence-
Acts 17:28 for in Him we live and move and have our being
Proverbs 15:3 The eyes of the Lord are in every place,
Keeping watch on the evil and the good.
Omnipotence-
Hebrews 1:3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power
Luke 1:37 For with God nothing will be impossible.
Matthew 19:26 With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.
Matthew 28:18 All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
Genesis 1, John 1
Psalm 139
On Wednesday night we began our series of studies on Basic Doctrine and Theology, with a discussion of the definition of God, taken from the Shorter Westminster Catechism. I am including the definition here, as a resource, and am also giving some supporting Scriptures for each point.
Definition of God: “God is a spirit. Infinite, eternal and unchangeable in His being, wisdom, power, holiness, justice, goodness and truth.”
Spirit- John 4:24, John 1:18
Infinite- 1 Kings 8:27, Romans 11:33-36
Eternal- Psalm 90:2, Revelation 1:4,8
Unchangeable- Malachi 3:6, James 1:17, Hebrews 13:8
Being- Exodus 3:14, 1 Timothy 6:15-16
Wisdom- Romans 11:33-34, 1 John 3:20
Power- Jeremiah 32:17, Matthew 19:26
Holiness- 1 Peter 1:15-16, Revelation 15:4
Justice- Deuteronomy 32:4, Psalm 96:13
Goodness- Psalm 107:8, Romans 2:4
Truth- Psalm 117:2, Hebrews 6:18
What if we really believed that John is telling the truth, when he says in 1 John 5 that when we pray for a brother we see sinning, we can save their lives? At this Christmas season, while so much of our thoughts center around giving, why not take the time to give the gift of life to those around us? Prayer gives life!
Dave Rolph is the Senior Pastor of Calvary Chapel Pacific Hills in Aliso Viejo, California, and is the Bible teacher for the radio program The Balanced Word. He has been at CC Pacific Hills for seven years, and prior to that he was an assistant pastor at Calvary Chapel of Costa Mesa for 25 years.
